It's a Broker Thing
It’s a Broker Thing brings you real broker conversations, the kind that happen when you’re talking shop with someone who understands the pace, the pressure and the unexpected moments that come with the job.
Each episode shares stories, insights and practical ideas from people who’ve genuinely lived broking, with honest chat and a few laughs along the way.
This podcast is for general education only and isn’t financial, legal, or tax advice. The guests’ views are their own. Bluestone accepts no liability for errors or how you use this information.
It's a Broker Thing
4. Brokers Don’t Need Big Budgets. They Need This - with guest, Ruan Burger
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Think branding starts with a logo? It could be the last place to look.
Host, Tony MacRae, joins business coach and founder of Success & Broker, Ruan Burger, to discuss how brokers can build a powerful brokerage without big budgets. From the science of social media, to the art of making the complex simple, Ruan shares the ultimate competitive advantage to stay relevant in a world full of noise.
The starting point? You'll have to tune in to find out.
Welcome to It's a Broker Thing podcast, brought to you by Bluestone Home Loans. Each episode we'll dive into market updates, practical insights, and real stories for brokers who want to stay ahead, build stronger relationships and grow their business. Let's dive in. Welcome back to It's a Broker Thing, brought to you by Bluestone Home Loans. I'm your host, Tony McCrae, and today I'm delighted to be joined by founder of Success and Broker and multi-mentor award winner throughout the industry, Ruan Berger. Today we're going to talk about how brokers can build and enhance their brand. Ruan, absolute pleasure to have you here.
SPEAKER_01Thank you for having me, sir.
SPEAKER_00Mate, normally I kick off now. I sort of say, let's dive in. Before we dive in, I wouldn't mind teeing off on a couple of things that uh is is happening in the marketplace at the moment. And um in fact it really um having an impact in our space. The first one is I'd love your opinion on this first home buyer um uh scheme that the government's put in. And and let me give you the perspective. Six months ago, we were certainly talking about interest rate cycle going down. We've now got the interest rate cycle um going up. My real concern here is we've got a bunch of first home buyers that have come into the market are now borrowing 95% of their loan, they're paying inflated prices for uh for properties, and they're stuck with uh um these higher interest rates now. Does that concern you?
SPEAKER_01Well, I heard something a while ago and it's at uh politics trumps policy, and I think it rings quite true in this circumstances, and I mean it's not that I'm politically correct with a lot of things, but one thing is certain if you're gonna get into the property market, uh one thing most of us have done back in the years is you're gonna look at what rent am I paying, and then what's my cost of borrowing? And if those things are very much even Stevens, then you can almost say, well, why wouldn't I just take the plunge? Why wouldn't I just buy property? Uh now you look at the prices. I I mean, the truth be told, what did we expect? This was always gonna happen. Um I I mean, back in the day I can remember one of when I was yeah and now I'm showing my age, but when I bought my first property and you look at the construction, you know, we had the builder's grant. Who got the money? Did it was it really my benefit or was it the builder's benefit? So I don't think anything has changed. I think the the reality just is the cost of purchasing has become a lot expensive, more expensive, and that just maybe make it now more of a real story. Uh back then the same things happened, but prices were more controlled. But now prices are a bit out of control.
SPEAKER_00But it surely someone's doing the modelling here. You know, someone in government that comes up with these schemes is doing the modelling here. And you know, the other the other um thing that jumps out to me is this idea to um either limit or reduce the capital gains um discount. Now, if you tax something, you get less of it. If if you if you make um investment properties less attractive, investors have got the options of um looking at other assets. And all again, we get this whole cycle of um we'll have less of it, we'll have higher price properties, we'll um we'll have higher rents. And I scratch my head and go, where were these guys when in year 10 Economics 101 was being taught? Where the hell were they? They were having a smoke behind the toilets or something.
SPEAKER_01Well, or a vape. So I I think the and again, this is it's a it's almost a little bit of a conversation that's never gonna stop. Because as long as these things are assumptions, we're always gonna be caught off guard. Uh, I don't think any of these things has ever been data driven. Well, I can't see how it is. Um if you think about getting people into the market, there's different ways you can get people into the market, but to fund people into markets is always gonna inflate a price point. Because so it's either getting people into the market or it's infl or it's funding people into the market. And they've always funded us into the market. Uh only thing maybe in the benefit for the government, for me personally looking, and by the way, speaking as a South African, we we've never had these benefits, um, is that property is very well regarded in Australia. Uh property is a currency in many ways. Owning a property, and so for that reason, this conversation is one that always has a bit of input and a bit of output.
SPEAKER_00It's it's not known as the great Australian dream for no reason. And as you're absolutely right. It is currency um here in Australia.
SPEAKER_01And I think that that forces the hand a little bit, where you know, anyone that looks currently as it's a comparison model for the human. Like if you think about any young person out there sitting and going, I can't control the rent I'm gonna pay, someone else is controlling it on me. So maybe I should jump. Maybe I should go and buy a property, and then if there's a proposition that can help me fund me into it, why wouldn't I take advantage of it? But then the flip side of it is if you have everyone competing for the same thing, it just forces the market. So it's it's I I just think it's unfortunate that it is an assumption model. Um, and I I don't think anyone looks at these things and says, Okay, we've made a mistake, let's change it, because it's it's about politics.
SPEAKER_00Here's a wacky idea. Build a few damn more places.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like start addressing the real issue, which is the supply chain.
SPEAKER_01Agreed. And again, it's uh every country I can't speak uh but but uh and again, I mean I'm not a political person, but when we try and push so hard for immigration, somewhere it's gonna break something. So it's just maybe that moment. Like I think in politics a J-curve doesn't exist. Uh so in business, a J curve's uh you know, you put things in, at the end of the day you've got to go, and then you can go back up. And politics is like they just want to go up. And nothing works that way. Everything plateaus, everything has a moment of truth, and the moment of truth every time has been exploit, um, but it doesn't change much.
SPEAKER_00You would have been cut off uh a long time ago um in your regular spot with uh um Minka's Minute. Yes, I know a lot of pressure on me today.
SPEAKER_01I watch the phone, I'll watch the phone when she does it.
SPEAKER_00A lot of pressure on me today because uh I what I watch that uh every time it comes out. But let's um I I I just wanted to get that off our chest, but let's dive into uh um today's topic, which is uh which is all around how brokers build their brands. And and you deal with lots of brokers now and you you see lots of successful brokers that have strong brands. What do they have in common?
SPEAKER_01I think most of them didn't start with a business brand. I think they started with their own brand. Uh very good brokers out there was very clear about who they are. You know, what they are to the market, what they are to their clients, what they are to their referral sources, and their brand isn't so much a brand as we think of it. So I think, and people need to realize this, that if you think of our business model, we it's human intervention in many ways. I mean, AI, everything coming is there to support us doing things more efficiently, but it is human intervention. So at the end of today, if I'm not selling a product, what am I selling? I'm selling myself. And if I'm not selling a product, what am I doing? I'm facilitating. So this that is who we are. And so if you think of us that way, you can't compare us to a brand like a Coca-Cola or a McDonald's. Why? Because that's product providers. We at the end of today is we are facilitators. So I think good brokers have gone about it the right way. They built their own brand in respect of who they are and what their character code is, what they stand for, the standard they walk past. And then from there, their brand almost started become a recognition. And so, yeah, it's you know, when I started the coaching, I had five clients before I found a name. Because again, it was about what I'm gonna do for you, how I'm gonna do it for you, and how I'm gonna support you, grow with you, etc. And the next moment I needed to find a name. So it's almost like for them, finding the right name isn't it, finding the right reason is it.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. We we were chatting earlier about um where the where the growth is coming at the moment and comparing it to all the talk seems to be about AI. Yeah. But but but where the big growth seems to be coming is in in those um the businesses that really do have that human intervention as well, and strong brands.
SPEAKER_01And it again, it comes back to convenience. Uh, you know, I've I've always said there's two things clients is gonna want from you. They want convenience and then supported by speed. So the reality of it is how convenient can you make it? I've seen good brokers selling bad processes just because they can, and because they have a capacity to control and to communicate the play. Uh the client at the end of today buys into it. Um the that for me, again, is a brand. It's almost like saying if you were to start today, don't worry so much about having the perfect process, worry about having the perfect pitch. So it's just horse, cart, cart, horse, and good brokers understand the difference.
SPEAKER_00And is that more than it's about the why or the reason as opposed to I've got all the other things um in the back office lined up?
SPEAKER_01And I think one thing we we ask clients a lot of times, well, you know, what do you want? I mean, truth be told, don't we know what they want? They come to us because they want finance. So we can ask these questions, but we've got to understand why we ask them. So for me at the end of today, I know already what you want. Isn't it worth me telling you how I can support you? And then if you like the way I'm gonna support you, you can make an informed choice whether you want to use my services or not. And so it's almost like it's not the why for me on what we do, what we do, is and it could be the same for everyone, but it's again not what it does for them, it's what it does for me. I think sometimes we've got to be a little bit selfish and understand what is this, what is this journey gonna mean to me? How many lives can I support, not change, but support? And if I understand that thing, then it's a case of how am I gonna do it? What am I gonna do to do it, and then when do I start?
SPEAKER_00It's funny because if you look at the the home purchasing cycle, um, you know, realistically there's two high points. Yeah. There's find the place and get the keys. And as a broker, you may get involved a little bit before find the place, but you actually have got the really difficult bit in between find the place and get the keys to uh to manage for the the customer.
SPEAKER_01Agreed. And um the reality of it is it's easy to sign somewhere, that doesn't mean it's all gonna happen. And that's where the broker has played a crucial part for anyone for anyone client for that matter. But again, clients if clients don't sell your name per se, they whatever brand you have, the clients won't go and say you have to use this business. They go you have to use this person. So who is really the brand? And I think big brokerages have learned that a long time ago, that at the end of the day, the bro brand is there to support it, the character is there to showcase. Yeah. So it's just how we've built the businesses, and I I love when I see those businesses stand for that. So that's quite quite precious, it's quite personal. Excellent.
SPEAKER_00So starting out, building a um a business from scratch, in your view, what are the top three things that you need to do to um build that brand, move the the dial on building the brand, but also creating credibility?
SPEAKER_01I think you've got to understand how you're gonna engage with people, um, whether it's in person, whether it's online, whether it's phone calls, and you've got to work to your strengths as well. Um you you can't be all things to all people. Um, and by the way, that's not me saying you've got to choose a niche early on. I'm saying you've got to talk to the more people you can talk to, the better off you're gonna be. But you've got to understand how are you gonna engage with them. What is it? So, so if you think a little bit about uh talking about brand recognition, what does it mean to them to use your services? Why not why are you better than anyone else, but why you? Why choose to use your services? And usually it's gonna be clarity. Um, so and if you're not clear about why you do what you do and why you do it for them, the chances are you're not gonna be looking that confident. And if you don't look that confident, I'm gonna keep looking. Because I like what you said, but do I trust the way you're gonna do it? So for me as the client, two things. First, I've got to like you, second, I've got to trust you. And that for me is a real brand play. So how quick can I get you to like me? Well, what's the small talk we can have? What's the quick chat we can have, what's the the chuckle we can have together? Then it's a case of I'm gonna show you certain things, and I I I'm I'll give brokers today just a play here that was always important for me. I've always said my job isn't to tell you how much you can borrow, my job is to tell you what you can repay. So from that point of view, I already I set those things because I wanted you to trust that I'm not just gonna try and get you a loan for the sake of a loan, I'm gonna get you a loan that one you equipped to pay back or or repay back, and that you can have for a period of time because the loan isn't for one year. So why am I building it just for one year?
SPEAKER_00And I and I I like the simplicity in the message um there, and I think having having those um those simple calls, and you know, I know when um when when when I came here to Bluestone, um we said we're gonna you know keep simplicity at the forefront of everything we do, and and and our our our pitch was gonna be about relationship and service um and just stick to those things and not try and um complicate any of the messages that are out there. And it sounds you you're saying similar sorts of things in in the brand play as well.
SPEAKER_01And the truth is anyone that comes into broking, regardless of what you think, it can be overcomplicated. There could be a lot of things that you've got to look. So I heard this early days, I was 26 years old, and now I'm you know 46 years old. A little bit over the day. That's it. So now it's 20 years ago for that matter. But I heard something very early day from a real estate leader, and he said to me, Your job is to make the complicated simple, and if you can do that, then you've got to pay attention to now how you make it compelling. And oh, I love that. I just went, I was 26 years old, and I went, and I'm one of those because my first language is Afrikaans and second language is English. When I hear good things like that, I overuse them, purely because they just sound so good. But it did wrap off on me and it became a point of, and that's almost what I want to say. It's good brokers brand isn't simple, it's compelling. And I believe that's a big point of difference.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I have I I I had a boss that uh used to have the same saying about leadership. You know, as a leader, your job is to make um the complex simple and the simple compelling.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's uh and I love that. I think it's such a cool message. Yeah. Um, let me swing um tack a little bit. Social media um can be, you know, really daunting in in building a brand.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But in your experience, what what what's the best way for brokers to go about it and and get the best return for their time?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And again, uh it's so so here's the thing with social media, and uh someone told me the other day, apparently you're against social media. And um I said to the particular person, I'm not against social media, just because I don't have Facebook or Insta doesn't make me against it. Um, as a model, it clearly works. Uh, but I just think it's a moment in time. So if you think of going on social media, you've got to understand you that you talk to the masses. What is it that you are saying that's quite compelling? What is it that's gonna make me when I scroll stop there and read it? And if you think about it a bit more, it was always the same with websites. You know, when in the early days when we build our websites and social media wasn't the the board of call, the first thing was how do you keep someone on that website? How do you make sure they don't stay for three seconds but they stay for three minutes? So what what is it that you have there that someone looks at and go, hmm, that's that's interesting. And so if you're gonna do anything social media, you've got to either be a really good storyteller or you've got to have a really good message. And so if your message isn't that good, and the second thing is you've got to be able to sift through it very, very quickly because it's the call to action on social media, as far as I'm concerned, is very quick. If someone is gonna come and say, I want to talk to you, you've got to be ready to talk to them because that is social media for you. And if you truly find what you want to do and you build a brand, I would like to say big businesses, you asked me earlier with good brokerages from a brand point of view. I don't think for them they look at social media like most of us look at social media. I think they look at social media as social proof, so their story would be different. They will make sure that you know, a lot of times they are not telling their story, someone else is telling it on their behalf. Now, for me, that's where social media just takes the next level. Um, because that's where it's good. And and I personally take LinkedIn. I mean, I'm on LinkedIn and it's a social platform. Why? Because it's a great place for me to share stories, it's a great place for me to educate, it's a great place for me to engage. So you gotta find that medium that supports the story you're telling, but also supports this what you want from that story.
SPEAKER_00And having impact is so important because the attention span of the audience on social media is is, you know, people are just constantly scrolling and and and and having an immediate impact to um as you say to get them to move from three seconds to three minutes is is critical.
SPEAKER_01And you're casting a net for all intents and purposes. You're throwing it out there and say, who bites? And so then just because they bite doesn't mean they're gonna stay on the hook. So now the next step is you've got to have something where at least whatever information you get from them is enough information again to entice that conversation and let alone that appointment. Um, otherwise you can have a lot of conversations, but if you don't physically can drive them to a point where you and I can see each other, then how hard is it to build that connection? So social media is merely it's it's a vast ocean. So you almost have to start understanding either you get really, really good at, and I'm not a fisherman for any intents and purposes, but you've got to get very, very good at knowing what is down there and what you're fishing for. And then it's a case of bait. It's making sure you put the right things on so that what do you want to attract? I saw something the other day and I thought it was really, really good. It's it was uh someone that was in the trade and then have become a broker, and it talked about when they were in the trade. This is what always frustrated them, you know, and this is now as a broker what they do. And I thought that's a really good relate and resonate. So I almost say in social media, if you can't get the audience to relate and resonate with what it is you say, then you're just posting for posting.
SPEAKER_00And positioning, and you know, I hear you talk about positioning and positioning of brands, and then you use the analogy of fishing and bait. Yeah. So how how do you best position your brand to actually lead to those referrals or to lead to um repeat business?
SPEAKER_01I think it's a science model. Uh, you you almost got to showcase more than you talk about it. So imagine, you know, even for me when I went into coaching, it was very easy to sign people because if they say they want to write 100 mil, it's easy because I have done it. If they want to say they want to build a business, it's easy because I've done it. So you almost have to think as a broker that same way. You've got to show them the science. Like if it's a case of this is the type of client I want to work with, what is it? Is it because of your experience? Is it because something that you've experienced? Is it something you've done? So you you have to almost hone it in just to understand how does this look to them and what is the benefit for them in respect of that facilitation? Because it is still what it is. It comes back to if I'm gonna sign you as a client, I can't talk about the things that you expect from me. I'm gonna talk about the things that you didn't expect from me. Like if every broker is out there and say, I'm gonna do this for you and I'm gonna do that for you, do you know how many times clients must hear that? But what if I was to say to you, every broker does these things for you? It's these two things that's very important that you really need to make sure someone does for you, and we do them well. Now that's a whole different conversation now.
SPEAKER_00You spoke earlier about um storytelling and and and real using real, you know, humans and stories. How do brokers incorporate that into humanizing or building the emotional connection with their brand?
SPEAKER_01It's a behavior. They have to be able to identify behaviors. I mean just think about in our industry. I mean you talk about different roles. You you talk about the engineer versus the teacher versus the versus the tradee. They think very different about how this experience, how they're gonna go through these. So you need to be able to influence behaviors. We're in a business and that's what I was saying earlier, we're in a business model where we can sell yourself. And that's quite cool. If if you really understand what you're about that's where it really becomes personal because I'm comfortable to sell myself. I'm comfortable to to let you know what it is that you can expect of me but I'm also comfortable to have the conversation that if I meet all those expectations are you're gonna be okay if I expect these two things of you. And so what I'm saying is we have build a model on judge and juror you can't sit there and assume anyone is going to do anything. You've got to sit there and ask the right questions to understand what they're willing to do and what they're not willing to do. And from there you've got to choose your clientele. And it's chores over choices. So early days you just got to talk to more people I um I spoke to a group the other day and I said to they two new brokers in the group and um the two new brokers was the two to ask me what do we do when it's going to be a lot tougher for us to get in now with real everyone has a real estate agent, they have a planner I said how many people is on your phone about 500 I said start talking so get on a system like Click SMS or MySMS Touch Touch SMS get on that system get all their names in there and if you had a win share the win with them and let them know if there's anyone else you know that falls in this category please send them on to me. So it's we sometimes again that's what I'm talking about that overcomplication we sometimes go too far when the reality is we shouldn't. We should look at what's in front of us.
SPEAKER_00And and I love you know I remember this from you when you and I traveled Australia last year on the in the road shows together but I love how you know you you're not afraid and you weren't afraid as a broker and you're not afraid with with your coaching to to ensure that as a broker you set really clear expectations on the customer. It's not just you doing service hey you've got a role to play and you've you've got to pull your weight here.
SPEAKER_01And the only reason you have to do that is because half the times we're not very good at articulating all the work we are doing. So if you build an expectation model you are going to talk about what you do and why you do it which means now they're gonna for the first time understand all the work that goes into this. And if they understand and they appreciate they will be willing.
SPEAKER_00So when we think about broker brands and and and um building them what what are the couple of great things that uh that brokers are doing in them in today's marketplace? And what are the things that you see that you could just stop doing that.
SPEAKER_01That's not adding any value I think I'll tell you what's good because I don't think anyone has to stop things because sometimes we've got to go through the notion so we can appreciate it, respect it and be courteous towards it. But I think as far as good things that I see brokers do out there to almost redefine their brand is they're very clear about the top of clients. They were very good at doing the chores and they now really have the choice to choose. So I think any good brand it's they weren't scared to do the chores. They weren't scared to put in the heart yards they weren't scared to have the conversations they just weren't scared and now they have choices and those choices redefine their businesses because it becomes an attraction model now not just by clients but also by the industry.
SPEAKER_00Other people looking say I want to work for your company I mean that's just a win a oh that's it it's it's self-fulfilling and and it build builds on itself when you get that and and if you've got you know customers going hey I want to come um to to your brand and your business um that that that's got to be one of the ultimate models.
SPEAKER_01Oh agree uh and I'll say this people need to understand that every bit of communication you have is at the end of the day telling a story whether it's the voicemail you have with whether it's your email signature you have everything is telling a story. You don't know who's passing on that email to else so what does it look like? Is that a photo where you present well is the everything looking in it quite schmeck uh if it isn't pay the$200 let someone make it schmeck and is is there anything you're seeing today that you cringe at in in the brand space and go, just stop doing that um I well don't I mean I don't want to upset anyone but I just sometimes don't understand if someone with communication out to the world world out there, you know I I've never understood why someone has to talk in a manner that I just wonder if you really talk that way. You know the word choices that you use whether you know saying a swear word for argument's sake to the wider market when we want to be seen as a profession. I just don't understand that part. But again if that is the market that appeals to you then by all means I just personally think we need to be a profession and as a profession we need to act and showcase professionalism every time we interact and every time we engage with people. And we are on show um and it's important to to to recognize that but it's also important to turn up um uh authentic and and you know you know as you say be who you are don't put on um you know something but again it's for the same token I mean if you've got to be who you are but like you know if I was to ask and I mean when I grew up in school we had to speak English and it was tough for me because it was my first language but when I got into the English classroom there was an expectation of me to speak English even though Afrikaans is my mother language. I respected that so therefore I spoke English. If I walk out of there I was so happy to speak Afrikaans but the point I'm just making is that's what we've got to understand. Just because you have to do certain things to respectfully showcase a certain way that doesn't make it bad. That's just courtesy. And we've got to show courtesy in business. Business courtesy I think has maybe got a little bit loss and I think it's maybe worth us just reinvigorating it again because losing things is easy retaining things sometimes are harder.
SPEAKER_00Fantastic I think that's a really great message um to wrap up uh today's um episode on mate thank you for uh for coming along sharing your uh your experience your knowledge um your expertise and it's uh it's always a pleasure to uh to chat with you likewise though um and thank you for uh for joining um today's episode uh don't forget to subscribe or join the uh bluestone community uh to get uh more uh insights and updates and we'll catch you on the next episode of It's a Broker Thing. That's a wrap for this episode of It's a Broker Thing brought to you by Bluestone Home Loans. We love sharing ideas that help you stay ahead because backing brokers, well it's a Bluestone thing. Hit subscribe and join us next time for more insights and stories that keep you in the know. This podcast is for general education only and isn't financial, legal or tax advice. Guest views are their own Bluestone accepts no liability for errors or how you use this information